Panel of the Dead (Repost) Part 3/3

Back at a website that is no longer with us, this series was begat. It was a discussion panel about what you might do during an outbreak of zombies. All three basic types of zombies. It’s nearing Halloween, and so, why not bring back the dead? Get your shotgun or baseball bat, you’ll need it. Here’s part 3.

The Outbreak… part 3

Welcome back zombie enthusiasts! This is the third and final installment of our three part zombie discussion related to the outbreak phase of a pending zombie apocalypse. Things get a little bizarre in the edition as we speculate about survival tactics, as well as ideal situations. Mind you, nothing is truly ideal in such a scenario…

In order to understand the three zombie types we are discussing, you will need to check out the first installment., you can check it out here. You also should take a look at the second part of this three part series here.

Without much further ado, let’s meet our dead heads… in reverse alphabetical order because the other way is far too predictable.


Seph Belmont, Phocas, Milo, Laurie Strode, JCC, J, Gunsage, G, Biohazard, and, Anghellica.


Zombies everywhere… and what is that!? Oh crap…

Question 7: “For the sake of argument, let’s say the first day of the infection coincides with a natural disaster such as a hurricaine, earthquake, meteor strike, etc. Which particular disaster would you see as making our zombie attack on day one the most stifling towards you survival and why?”

JCC: It would have to be an earthquake. Largest amount of structural damage to even the strongest of structures = way fewer places to hide.

J: I really only have to worry about an earthquake where I’m at. And yeah, that’d really fudge things up for me. I’m a fat guy. I’d rather not have to walk ALLL the way up the to the mountains if I don’t have to. I’d much rather have some roads to get me pretty close.

Gunsage: BP Oil spill coincides with truck transporting T-virus getting run off the road by a drunk celebrity that then splashes into the oil-ocean mixture and Taco Bell, being the cheap bastards they are, offers to “help clean up,” a two fold plan to improve public image and secretly put the oil into their burritos.

Milo: Living on the Gulf Coast, I’d have to say a hurricane would be the most devastating. Outrunning the zombies would be difficult enough, without torrential rain, hail, tornadoes, and 100+ mph winds. Fallen trees and destroyed buildings, as well as traffic jams on standard evacuation routes, would really make things that much more difficult.

Anghellica: Being that I’m from California I would have to say an earthquake. With most big earthquakes freeways/bridges collapse (like the big earthquake that hit the bay area in 1989) so trying to escape would be impossible, But I think trying to get food, water and even weapons would be easy because everyone is going crazy so stealing would be VERY EASY.

Seph Belmont: A tsunami would be the most damning natural disaster because it causes flooding. Flooding causes slow movement, and higher infection rates due to open cuts and sores. It’s like a zombie soup getting darker, and even the smallest injury would be infected in this slop. The worst damage however comes from floods ability to ruin food and ammo caches throughout the area meaning less resources to go around. For a small group of survivors there are enough provisions to get everything done, however the resources are still finite and must be preserved and used only when absolutely necessary. A hurricane or earthquake would merely cause some structural damage and perhaps electrocution via downed power lines touching water. A meteor strike can only effect a specific area, and only theoretically in worst case scenarios cause an ice age, which this would actually be a benefit. Zombies may be highly impervious to the elements, however their bodies are still human making frost bite and immobility still a factor piling on top of the rigor mortise.

G: I’ll go with a Tsunami. And one that is caused by, ohh let’s say, the San Andreas Fault Line finally dropping the West Coast of North America into the ocean. This would be of most impact in relation to the Romero zombie since the casualties of the the disaster would add a hell of a lot of new undead to the picture. Being located in Alberta, we would feel the severity of the quake itself pretty hard. Much would be destroyed up and down those provinces, territories, and states within North America. My province would suddenly have beach front property, and millions of newly undead neighbours slowly making their way towards us…. just adding to the hoard that exists within already. Since undead zombies cannot drown, they will only be slowed down in movement in the water.

On the other side of the coin, is the impact of a huge land mass hitting the water, causing a ridiculously massive Tsunami heading out in the Pacific Ocean in all other directions. From Australia to Asia, Africa to India, and so forth, devastation would be immense. Millions of people would be wiped out that reside on low lying islands of the Pacific as well as all nations on the ocean’s coast. We’re looking at a swift rise in immediate infection across all areas hit by this wave, and within all the chaos caused by the disaster, the zombie plague would thrive. Logistically, all nations hit by the wave or quake would see their armies and emergency teams fall apart quickly, leaving little help to colloborate against the hoard.

What is even more scary, is the question of whether the infected’s disease/virus can also be carried through the water? If a zombie is openly bleeding into the water, and an uninfected person (who has ANY open scratch) comes in contact with that water, can they become one of the Romero or Fast zombie’s as well? If the answer is yes, then this disaster would only become that much more devastating.

Biohazard: Well any natural disaster on a large scale is going to mean that not only the media, but also the government, will be preoccupied elsewhere and will either ignore the zombie outbreak or assign minimal reinforcement and protection. So really, almost any natural disaster would be very bad. Most disasters would destroy supplies, cause a panic, and distract everyone from the real problem at hand.

Phocas: If an all out environmental calamity, (as if a black sludge spewing into the nautical breadbasket that the Gulf is weren’t enough), were to occur at the onset of a zombie holocaust, then a large scale earthquake would have to be the worst.
I have the great fortune to not have been caught ever in a major calamity that could not be made into a movie. Sure hailstorms can be pretty severe, as can flooding, but it’s no earthquake, twister, hurricane, drought fueled wildfire or relative new commer to the disaster family (but sure to be a Emmerich flopbuster), the sink hole.

Asteroids and volcanoes are devastating events, absolutely, but the immediacy panic doesn’t seem as critical as that of an earthquake because you don’t have shit such as buildings falling on you, water lines and sewer systems breaking and creating mini floods that will carry possible hosts such as rats, or feces to see the light and coat or cover the wounded.
Zombies would have so many victims to infect that the population of undead would bloom like mad! Falling objects would cause so many head injuries as would the panic (remember the helplessness in 28 Months you felt when all those people were trapped in the assembly hall? Still chills me).

Asteroids and volcanoes are long term killers for those outside of a “splash zone” as the airborne particulate not only choke you out with the silica and sulphur, but block out the sun’s rays, therefore prevent any vegetative growth for about five years. It’s happened in the past I and others speculate- Krakatoa, Vesuvius, the Yucatan- to name a few instances You should check out the shit that happened world wide around 500 AD!
Twisters give me a laughable mental image (once again, having never been in one I feel i can say this) of Zombies hot on the trail of school kids locked in a cellar and whipping winds sneak up and grab the zombies shitty Hercules cartoon style like it were a lasso and throw them to deal with the Owl Man perched high above on Mt. Pernasus.

Earthquakes are sudden, they won’t decimate (yes, I know…to eliminate by the tens) hordes of zombies like wildfires would (and they would, G.) and it’s hard to escape in an illegally begotten sport utility with possible fractures and now jagged or buried freeway system or missing bridges.

Laurie Strode: I would have to say meteor strike, only because not only would you be trying to run from the zombies, you would also be dodging hot rocks flying at you!! Plus if one hits a huge building then you have debris, and its just not fun!!!


What a waste of a good piano.

Question 8: (Inspired by Zombieland), “What’s your “kill of the week?”

Laurie Strode: Anything that involves a flying chainsaw… that is just amazing!!

Anghellica: It would have to be me up on a roof of a building taking out zombies with a sniper rifle while listening to Raining Blood by Slayer.

Milo: Anything involving large farm machinery, like a combine. Multiple kills, ftw.

Seph Belmont: Dead survivor? Strap a bomb to him/her. Lie in wait, zombies come for lunch, wait until they’re enjoying their meal and BOOM. Or that is just the general gist of what I enjoy doing. Zombies have a reputation typically for being dim, use this stupidity to your advantage and set traps. The best way to curb the epidemic when all else fails is just killing all the undead you see. At least until a more feasible solution is found of course.

Phocas: This’ll be tough as I’m a purist and not really out to seek glory , but if it were my business and achievement points were silver bullets, then I’d hope to land these ones…

Romero Style: Using Paul McCartney as bait. I’d cover him in cows brains, or place Justin Beiber’s brains on him to wear as a hat (first time McCartney and Beibers names have been written in an article so close-other than People Magazine?), tie him to a flag pole top smothered in a sticky resin product like Tree Tanglefoot and then have the flag pole support a galaxy of fireworks and C4 explosives.

RLH Zombies : gasoline soaked house of mirrors with tight corridors .

Slave Automatons: attach detonating slave collars to each of them like Batman: Arkham Asylum, but program certain collars to detonate when a particular note is struck and then play “Ode to Joy” by Ludwig Van Beethoven or Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture blasted over a mobile sound system.

G: If I am tangling with the Voodoo zombie types, this is my chance to try out some wrestling moves and see how “fake” they are when executed with intent to injure. And I’m assuming that both piledrivers and DDT’s would be some impressive attacks to execute on said zombie.
On the other hand, there is NO way I would risk these on either the Fast or Romero zombie considering the risk of a bite, scratch, and whatnot. For these types, I think I’d like to play a little game called, “Teach Zombies to Fly.” It’s all about the scientific method, really. First you start off in the controlled environment, this being the top of a very tall building. Your stimulas would be a very large slingshot set on a trigger release mechanism. The Pocket would be placed at the doorway entrance of rooftop access so that when one of the infected walks onto it, we test the aerodynamics of the test subject. Success rate is very low, unfortunately for science, but also fortunately for entertainment purposes.

JCC: I’d have the device from the game Mouse Trap set up, only life-sized. When the zombie moved into place, it would trigger the device, and when the eventual cage came down on him, it would have spikes inside to get the kill..

J: A carwash. Think about it

Gunsage: Giant Rube Goldberg machine that has a combo multiplier attached that ends up with a zombie getting strangled into a fan made of chainsaws.

Biohazard: I’m quite fond of zombies who accidentally kill themselves. Like walking into a wall, knocking something off of a shelf, and causing it to smash in their skull.


Hey, they could be weekly! cough… TNA…. cough

Question 9: “We asked what was in your immediate proximity for defence. Now we’d like to ask what is your ideal weapon that you could put together with resources available to you if given enough time. We also request that you consider that the big guns would be under lock and key upon the first few days of the outbreak.”

Biohazard: Seeing as guns take ammo, which you can only get so much of, and blades, bludgeons, etc… are short range and therefore dangerous to use, the best weapon would be a large armored vehicle. Eventually gas would run out, but zombies wouldn’t be able to get in. With windows, you could slowly pick them off with hand guns, or even hammers and crowbars.

Gunsage: Mostly all that are near me are blunt objects and wires that may be used for strangling or electrocution, should the mood strike me (or them, as it were). I’m sure I’d have more ideas once I play Dead Rising 2, but for now, acid bottle works, I’d probably freeze any containers of liquids I have for more blunt objects that would then be conductive once they melt, etc.
Not really a whole lot else I can think of. No guns here, surprisingly. I could probably cut the ends of DVDs slightly so as to serrate them to have makeshift shurikens. The wiimote/chuck combo is ideal for a whipping instrument, but I have belts for that.

G: I think I would try and take a liquor store that is a single level. These are well barricaded in Calgary considering that people try to drive their cars through the front for the old smash and dash theft scheme. A single level liquor store would have roof access. Molotovs, baby, molotovs. Just make sure you toss them into the hoard at a distance and you should be safe from buring yourself down… and can use them as a distracting device to clear them away from a vehicle parked (ready to go) on the other side of the building. If I was to leave my apartment or ideal hiding place (see answer to question #11) for anything, this would be it. Likely, however, I would do this with at least one other survivor so that one guy can distract the hoard while the other loads liquor into the waiting vehicle. And although guns are a rare find in Canada, I wouldn’t be shocked to find one in a shady liquor store…

Seph Belmont: I’ve got a few tricks up my sleeve. Bug Spray Can + My Zippo Lighter + Electric Tape = Portable Flamethrower. Tape the lighter to the front of the can with the flame spout under the spray nozzle, open the lighter and light it to set the initial flame, spray to crate a flame thrower effect. It’s good for basic survival.

Before the influx of fire safe cigarettes, I used to be able to rig a time delay device using a single cigarette, a pack of matches, and gasoline or other ignition source. Simply tie several matches with a string around the filter with the match bulbs pointing towards the cherry of the cigarette, place the bulbs of one side on top of a puddle of said gas with a stream heading towards the target, like an abandoned house. Light the cigarette. Within 5-10 minutes the entire house will catch on fire which is good for setting traps, unfortunately this is no longer possible as of writing this.
Pipe bombs are fairly easy to make with materials found at a home depot. I also find that melee weapons are often frowned upon when discussing zombie defense, but I’d like to remind you that going back to humanities roots is never a bad idea. Get a nice sharp kitchen knife, and a shit load of electric tape, and a broom handle. Voila, spear. Enough to keep a zombie or two at a distance, and we’re just fighting them off till we get the better stuff right?

Phocas: If I were back in my office, I would be limited, much as I would be at home. All I could really get would be powerful lithium ion powered impact drills with 1/4 inch boring bits to do some quick fore head attacks, but leaving myself very vulnerable to scratches or being over run. Cordless circular saws would be the same, but great for quick attacks to lop off fingers or slice jaws off. Otherwise it would be sledgehammer and crowbar time.

Anghellica: Probably make some spears out of the mop and broom sticks.

Milo: I’d have to say that some sort of ranged weapon would be ideal. Anything that gave you the ability to pick off zombies at a distance, and keep things from getting up close and personal, would be best. That being said, a scoped hunting rifle, preferably semi automatic, with a large magazine capacity, would allow you to pick off dozens of targets before you would be forced to change positions. It wouldn’t neccesarily have to be too large a caliber. a Barrett .50 Cal sniper rifle is an awesome weapon, but would be overkill in this scenario. A Remington model 750, chambered in 30-06, would be readily available in any area where deer hunting is prevalant, such as my part of the country. This would be a near perfect ‘one shot, one kill’ weapon.

Laurie Strode: I think, if I had the training, I would prefer a machete. Because then you are just chopping off there heads. I know most people would say guns, but the decapitation seems to be the best result when it comes to zombies.

JCC: If we’re excluding guns, I’d go with a crossbow. Unless you’re wearing some sort of really reliable cover-all, you need projectiles to go after the fast zombies without being exposed to their blood. A crossbow is accurate enough and powerful enough to do what it needs to do, and at a distance. If we’re limited to strictly melee weapons, I’d pick a machete. A one-hand operational sharp sword-like tool is perfect for this type of scenario, because you can get some good reach with it, while not necessarily exposing too much of your own body during a swing. Plus it’s light and quick to use, but sharp and strong enough to get at the brains of the undead. Other types of weapons that would, at first though, be good such as chainsaws and various farming tools are just too heavy.

J: Well, for the Romero Zombies, I’ll talk the World War Z route and modify a shovel with a sharp blade. For the other two, I don’t know. Maybe a bat.


Self Amputation: Let’s all hope it never comes to this…

Question 10: “This one is semi-inspired by Planet Terror and Evil Dead, If you lost a limb to a zombie, but appear to have not been infected. What do you replace the limb with? Again, consider this during the initial outbreak period… so like Ash, he happened to have a chainsaw at the cabin he was staying at in Evil Dead 2.”

Phocas: Power Appendage!!
I’m gonna have to manufacture something out of a lawn mower (push style), maybe accessorize the blade with five inch metal screws up and down the blade for extra ripping power, half inch chains for flailing and wear the contraption on my back and show them some fucking “Turtle Power!!”

Laurie Strode: Whatever was in my closest vicinity, I think I would be so pissed I would just shove a huge knife in the place. At least until I could find something better, like a chainsaw!

JCC: Ideally, I’d go the Planet Terror route, and replace it with some sort of automatic firearm. Against multiple zombies, the more powerful the weapon, and the faster rate of fire, the better. But realistically, I doubt I’d be anywhere where that was an option. So let’s go with the biggest chef’s knife in my kitchen. It’s such a horror movie cliche to go for a kitchen knife when you hear a strange noise, but when you look at the knives in anything beyond a very basic set, there’s some pretty mean-looking stuff there that could do all different types of damage.

Biohazard: If it’s an arm that I lost, something like a broadsword or a shaolin spade. If it were a leg, I’d just want something I could quickly learn to run with.

Anghellica: A sawed off shotgun!!!!

J: I’d Army of Darkness myself and modify a gauntlet into a groovy hand.

G: I’ve got to firstly say that I’d rather an arm, than a leg when it comes down to survival. As much as I would miss an arm, at least you can still run from the hoard with both legs intact. If it came down to frequent locations I find myself, I’d replace a hand with standard hammer, reversed though. Yeah, I’d love to say a gun or chainsaw, or whatever, but I’m trying to be honest with this one. I am not around such things very often. I’d also have the hammer with the nail removing claw positioned like a hook for a hand. That way, I wouldn’t be as crippled and have back hand potential to zombies’ heads still available to me.

If I lost a leg/foot, it gets a bit trickier to decide. I would prefer something that allows for mobility over anything. If it is just the foot, I’d be aiming for a skateboard or grocery cart wheels… or something similar and fairly commonly found in suburbia. Not the best solution, nor much of a weapon, but I digress. If my whole leg is gone, I can’t think of much that would be easily available to aid in survival. I’d be keeping an eye out for a prosthetic leg…

Milo: I’d be hard pressed to outdo Ash’s chainsaw. It’s probably the ideal hand to hand weapon. The best I could hope for, given my current resources, would be some sort of bladed appendage, either a large chef’s knife or a screwdriver of some kind. Something that, when thrust, could penetrate bone and make its way into the brain cavity.

Seph Belmont: A blade of some type, possibly from a sword. It’s good for blocking and killing a zombie at the same time, and requires minimal maintenance.

Gunsage: While I would love to say I would mad scientist some shit together, nothing quite beats just lodging a large, sharp object into the nub. So for example, put a spear on there, then wrap barbed wire around the spear.


This looks like a good spot to attempt to get to…

Question 11: “What is your ideal of the ideal place to hang out while the apocalypse blows over? If it does…”

J: Ideal? I’d stick with my mountains. Probably not the Smokies, but someplace remote that’s hard to get to and I can live off the land. Malls are boring.

Gunsage: Tree house. Now think about this for a second. It’s very small, there’s only one true entrance, and only one way to get up there. Furthermore, if you’re a crazy Home Alone-like bastard, you probably have a zip line connecting to somewhere else. So even in the event you’re out of supplies, ammo, etc., there’s a good chance you can escape to the next point.
Further, you’re high up, so you can get a good angle at where to go next.

Anghellica: If I was living in California still it would have to be my grandma’s house in the woods because the population is very low or it would have to be a place like Costco and I would live in the rafters.

G: It’s funny, for years I loved the idea of the Mall. Granted this was influenced directly by the original Dawn of the Dead, which made it look so easy. The problem I have with this strategy in my older years, is that EVERYBODY is going to the mall. The result? A bunch of victims strolling around, attracting the hoard, and hence, likely growing the hoard (unless we’ re talking voodoo zombies). Too obvious folks, and therefore, too dangerous.

In reality, my answer now comes from a conversation with our very own Phocas. See we were chilling between a wedding ceremony and reception at a pub… and he pointed out the merits of some of our local high schools. And in fact, I’ll go at directly name that school in particular that I’d choose: Lord Beaverbrook Senior High School.

It’s an older school, literally built like a prison. Almost every window is already covered in metal bars/screens. It is also the biggest school in Western Canada, that happens to be right by my home and night job. As a result, it is very appealing.

Since it could be fairly easily fortified, and assuming it is not over run by zombies, this would be a great place to be. You’ve got tons of gear on sight from Welding, Automotives, Woodshop, and so forth for basical mechanical needs (including barricading the place down). Once safe, you could survive for a while here considering there are power generators to keep the awesomely equipped cafeteria and kitchen running (refridgeration!!). Plus, lots of vending machines on site allow for a steady supply of dry food.

Boredom can be fairly limited, with a massive library, Music rooms, and Physical Education facilities. It even has a pool, which could be drained and filled with fresh water. Considering the school has extensive biology resources on hand, this creates a possibility for both irrigating hydroponics and having a fish farm.

The Physical Education resources bring with it some forms of defense. Archery!! Javelins!! Shotputs!! Football pads for armour!! Volleyball/badminton nets for traps!! And so forth…

Hell, with a little patience, one could use the welding room to create a make shift cannon (shotput as ammo) and create the needed gunpowder via the information found in the library, and chemicals found in the chemistry lab.

Or you could turn flutes into makeshift blowguns… make the darts in the woodshop.

Plus, there is a ton of types of fuel around, thanks to the Autoshop, Chemistry labs, and the Welding rooms.

I could keep going on, but as a person who is both academically and mechanically inclined, Lord Beaverbrook High School has to be my ideal (realistic) answer. Otherwise, give me a floating citadel…

Biohazard: Fucking castle in the middle of nowhere, stocked with food, videogames, and a bar and club. Nothing better than a giant stone wall between me and the undead while I party the apocalypse away.

JCC: A hidden bunker strong enough and inpenetrable enough that the zombies could not get in, and well stocked enough that I wouldn’t have any need to get out. I’d also enjoy a stockpile of weapons, just in case.

Milo: Anywhere that proves difficult for zombie access. I’m thinking either altitude or distance. In the short term, anywhere that puts you higher than the zombie horde would be ideal, say on a billboard catwalk, since zombies aren’t known for their ladder climbing prowess. Longer term solution would be an island. A large body of water between you and them would be advantageous. (Although, several authors, including Max Brooks and David Wellington, have discussed a zombie’s ability to walk on the ocean floor in search of prey). But an island would prove to be the most easily defensible safe haven during the zombie apocalypse.

Seph Belmont: Rooftop of a gun store. Purely as a hang out spot. Try to procure a sniper rifle of some kind. Have fun doing something you’ve never done before.

Phocas: Her Hair Reminds Me of A Warm Safe Place where as a Child I’d Hiy-E-yide :

If I needed a place to chill to wait for the shit to settle down it would have to be the Infamous Hart House. Yes, the same place were scores of heroes and villains learned their craft.
As the location goes, it’s somewhat isolated, but not remote. Chances are that the infected will be razing the surrounding neighbourhoods of Patterson Heights and Cougar Ridge and bypass the fortress style house. I’m sure Mry would love to feed me pies; Brett, Keith, Bruce and Jet would get a kick out of training my son and daughter defensive grapples, and I’m sure there is only two ways out of the “Dungeon” and one is a stretcher. I really like my chances here – if the house is destroyed, then it’s off to the Calgary Tower with a stolen cache of 33-0-0 fertilizer, half inch threaded pipes (lots of them) with end caps, fuses and lots of metal scraps. It has a restaurant, limited access points, and a panoramic view that is sure to delight any visitor, young and old; So why not call your travel agent today and book a vacation your family won’t stop talking about for hours!

Laurie Strode: A mall, though I think that is most peoples response. You have all the stores, food, AND no worries about having to spend money. I think an amusement park would be my second choice, but after seeing Zombieland I’m not so sure about that.


THE END….? Nope. It’s just the end of our first installment of the “Undead Intelligence Agency: Panel of the Dead.” It was a fun ride, and on behalf of everyone at the Nation, thank you for reading! And thanks to everyone who was involved in all aspects of this project, our panelists, graphic designers, and producers. We have plans for a future installment, this focusing on the the period after the first day of the infection, or onset of the zombie apocalypse. So fret not zombie enthusiasts… we will… live… again….




Last Chance to Rant


Seph Belmont: I personally have an entire zombie survival guide written in my own head that I never put to paper. Though it may appear silly to some, I’ve got the plans for the initial outbreak, during the outbreak, and after. I know instinctively what I’ll do in this event, and I know I could be preparing for other things, like something that might actually happen, but I just think it’s fun, and hey, if it does happen, at least I know, and KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! GI-JOE!

Special thanks to Biohazard for contributing this original drawing.

Beginners Spanish for surviving?

There’s a ton of zombie films on YouTube.  The sweet thing about the genre is that almost anyone can make a zombie film.  That’s also why there are a ton of crappy zombie films on YouTube.  This one is actually alright.

Phocas: Any idea what to do with the bodies once they are eliminated? You can’t burn them; Mass graves are going to contaminate the soil, same for water ways. Outer Space might be the only place for the bodies to go. Anyone have any ideas or retorts?

Best game of Tag ever?

Laurie Strode: I guess my rant could be on the fact that I think if a zombie attack were to occur, I would just kill a bunch of zombies until one attacked me. I think the inevitability that everyone is going to be infected would make me careless. I would probably be one of the first to go, but I would make sure to take out a whole bunch of mother fuckers with me!!!!


Shameless Plugs!


Project Wonderboy

Morphine Nation

Check out… it is a good resource!

…and of course, the man named whatever designed our kick ass banner ad that starts this article off, and his original website, the also original, Project Wonderboy.

The first installment of this discussion can be found here.

The second installment of this discussion can be found here.

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